Hello Everyone!

Fingers crossed, I am hoping I will be accepted by a college to do my A1 assessors course in Cleaning. I run a small cleaning company at the moment and can easily fit the course in around what I do; it's just taken an eternity to find anywhere local that is doing this course.

I have already completed by NVQ 1&2 in Cleaning and Support Services through a very well known, well respected, and professional college in my city, however, the college which is offering the A1 course is very small (it is in fact little more than an office), privately run (from what I gather), and very new. My concern is that the college is not at all what I was expecting, although I have no reason to doubt it as their website was very informative and carries the names I'd expect to see. Am I right in thinking that if they've got the facility to run the A1 course then I have nothing to worry about in the sense that to run this course they would have to be every bit as 'up to scratch' as a much bigger college?

I am very confused as I have an acquaintance who is an A1 assessor in this sector, albeit in a different city, and she has confused me greatly when I mentioned having applied for to go on the A1 through this college. She was not impressed with what I said about the college and what the manager had discussed with me. I think her comments were 'coloured' by the fact that she probably didn't like the idea of someone she knows becoming what she is (she is that type and was highly critical of how my own NVQ 1&2 course was done, but that's another story), but never the less I am confused and what she said added to my uncertainty.

I am also confused about the funding; I was told the college has 'train to gain' funding and my acquaintance does not understand why -if this is the case- I have been told the fee I have to pay for the course will be £200. Can anyone advise on this as well?

In addition, the college manager said that if I find 2 NVQ candidates to assess then they have to be engaged in cleaning as part or all of their job. However, my acquaintance has said that the candidates have to be completely engaged in cleaning, in other words working as a cleaner. This conflicts with what the manager said and presents me with difficulty, because I know several people who employ people in their business who do cleaning as part of the job (for instance a Dentist who's receptionist does the cleaning, and a restaurant owner who's general staff all clean for them) and they'd be happy to consider me using their staff, but I don't know anyone who employs people solely to clean for them. Who is right?

I am sorry to go on, but I've been looking to get on an A1 course for ages, and now I'm just confused. Any advice and confidence boosting will be gladly accepted!

Thanks in advance

Worz.

Hi Worz

Welcome to the forum.

I too would share your friend's concerns. This organisation doesn't sound much like a "college" to me although I know anyone can just set-up and call themselves one. Anyone can produce a fancy website, I've seen a very impressive one created by a trainee A1 assessor!

To deliver the A1 qualification, a training provider has to be registered with an awarding body, C&G, OCR etc and have accreditation for that qualification. To get this accreditation, there has to be a robust structure in place both to administer the qualification and to deliver it, such as an Internal Verifier, audit trails, standardisation policy etc etc.
This college could have all this in place but I would be wary of a small new organisation as it may not have the experience or capacity to deliver what you need.

Train to gain is normally only offered for level 2 awards (A1 is level 3) but there are exceptions. Also it is normally only available to candidates who haven't previously gained a level 2 award, which you have, although, again there can be exceptions. The fee doesn't sound too bad but I did mine through my local adult education college as a night class for £48. What about the college you did your NVQ with?

As far as the occupational competence of your candidates, I'm not sure and will have to read up about it. My initial though was at least 16hrs per week but that could be wildly out.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Hi Dave

Thanks for your kind reply. I must point out that said person is an acquaintance not a friend . In fact it was she who told me the only way of doing the A1 course was by getting a job as a trainee assessor, she was quite sure that it wasn't something that could be done 'standalone'. That should give you an indication of where the person is coming from as it will have been said as a matter of spite and not for her lack of knowledge as i know she is very 'up' on her subject.

You have answered my question on Train to Gain; these words word mentioned by the college in my initial consultation and from what you've said they were probably in reference to the funding avaliable to candidates taking levels 1&2. TBH there was a lot to take in and it wasnt appropriate to ask a lot of questions there and then as i needed to clear my head and decide which questions i really needed to ask.

This is the line from you reply which tallied with my own concerns: "This college could have all this in place but I would be wary of a small new organisation as it may not have the experience or capacity to deliver what you need."

You've hit the nail on the head with that, that is exactly how i am feeling. This is what their own website says: "XXXXXXXX is a national Training Provider of healthcare training programmes and is registered with the Department for Education & Skills as an International College. The college is also Investors in People accredited and is a registered examination centre with the Educational Development International (EDI)."

I'm confused.

From your own forum, I found someone else had asked about colleges in the same city as me. i have found the following reply about the very college i did my NVQ courses: "XXXXXX College - you need to have an assessor role with your own IV".

I am presuming that means i need to be in the 'job' i wish to assess? There is also one other college mentioned in the same reply, i looked at that colleges webiste and it says "It is a requirement of the programme that trainee-assessor should have identified two NVQ candidates prior to commencement of the programme, a qualified assessor to countersign their evidence and has the agreement of an Internal Verifier or Accredited Centre that you can undertake this activity."

Where on earth then would i get the services of qualified assessor, or the agreement of an IV? That bit is really confusing.

WRT to the bit about how much cleaning the candidates do, are you saying that if your figure of 16 hours a week is correct, this is how many hours they have to spend per week doing the job for which they are taking the NVQ? In other words if someone is employed for 20 hrs per week but only does cleaning for 5 of those hours (say 1 hour a day as part of their other duties) they wouldnt be suitable?

Sorry for the influx of questions again, but i am desperate to get the wheels in motion for my A1 sooner rather than later. I really appreciate what you've said so far.

Thanks

Worz.

i would do it from a reputed college or university to be honest.. I was faced with this dilemma of a small college versus big and I chose the bigger more reputed one. Atleast it is worth the effort. I am not sure about the funding although I dont think you normally get funding for assessors courses.. I may be totally off track here! correct me please if I am.

Hi Worz

You are certainly stretching the brain cells but, hey, what else to do on a dark afternoon!

Regarding the suitability of your candidates, I have pasted the C&G candidate entry requirements for the Cleaning NVQ below. It looks to me that the first bit may rule out those you were looking at. What about your own employees?
"Candidate work role requirements
This NVQ is for those working in the Cleaning industry / profession.
Candidate entry requirements
Candidates should not be entered for a qualification of the same type, content and level as that of a
qualification they already hold.
Age restrictions
There are no age limits attached to candidates undertaking the N/SVQ unless this is a legal
requirement of the process or the environment. Otherwise, there are no formal entry requirements
for candidates undertaking this qualification; however centres must ensure that candidates have
the potential and opportunity to gain evidence for the qualification in the work place."

You can get a job as a trainee assessor with the advantage that you will be paid a salary whist training and you won't, hopefully, have to find your own candidates.

The business about candidates, IV's, registration is a bit complicated.
The college (including the one I used) will only support you to complete your A1 portfolio using their IV etc.
You are responsible for producing the evidence for your A1 portfolio which you can only get by putting a minimum of two candidates through two units each of an NVQ. Those candidates must be registered with an accredited training provider who needs to be willing to IV the candidates' portfolios, have a qualified assessor countersign your assessment decisions and include you in their standardisation meetings.
This can be tough. I was lucky to find a local training provider who allowed me to assess two of their candidates for my A1 and did subsequently give me a job.

There are also colleges who do deliver NVQ's across a range of occupations so if you can find one which does cleaning you're sorted.

Just re-reading your first post, what about the "very well known, well respected, and professional college in my city"? surely that's the way to go.

Hope I've covered your questions.

Dave

Hi Worzie,

I had troubles here and there with my A1. Its not the easiest to achieve as there are many little factors to bring together. But I managed.

Take each step- at a time and it will begin to make some sence to you as you go along. Any candidate you choose will be attatched to the training centre, you need to get the training centre assessor to agree to countersign and verify your judgements. If the training centre is reluctant, you will have to go elsewhere.



If you find the candidates, talk to thier assessor and take it from there........

If the training centre agrees to accept you, you are ready for the A1

Timing is diffcult as you may find that candidates are almost finished or not started in time.

Keep at it, you wil get there. It takes a high level of organisation and some get an easier ride when they already attatched to a centre or organisation. It is possible so do not give up till you get what you need .. Good luck

Hi Worzie,

I had troubles here and there with my A1. Its not the easiest to achieve as there are many little factors to bring together. But I managed.

Take each step- at a time and it will begin to make some sence to you as you go along. Any candidate you choose will be attatched to the training centre, you need to get the training centre assessor to agree to countersign and verify your judgements. If the training centre is reluctant, you will have to go elsewhere.



If you find the candidates, talk to thier assessor and take it from there........

If the training centre agrees to accept you, you are ready for the A1

Timing is diffcult as you may find that candidates are almost finished or not started in time.


Keep at it, you wil get there. It takes a high level of organisation and some get an easier ride when they already attatched to a centre or organisation. It is possible so do not give up till you get what you need .. Good luck

Hi! Thank you both for your kind replies.
I would –most certainly- prefer to use a well-know established college as apposed to a small new one, but then this doesn't seem to be an option as few people are offering the course in my county . But then part of me is saying asking myself "should I be concerned about the college being small and new?" when I myself have always supported and trusted the small businesses wherever possible, being a small business myself. However, this is of course something where I am reliant on their help to get me through the course and I am concerned about much I will be supported. But at the same time I don't know that I won't be......oh it's driving me mad! Sorry.

Regarding the suitability candidates, I too read what you posted, but I wasn't clear whether it discount people who clean as part of their job. You see, thinking back, several years ago one of the companies I worked for was willing to put our whole office through Customer Care NVQ 1&2 (I did sign up to it but left before it began) and yet in that job Customer Care was only a fraction of the work we did and it wasn't actually a 'customer care' role at all. This is also what makes me question how much of the 'job' needs to be related to the NVQ course taken?
The reason I can't put my own employees through the course is because I don't employ anyone. When I said "I run a small cleaning company" I mean just that – it's me on my own. I never really wanted to employ staff and in any event (to digress) it's very hard to making domestic cleaning 'work' when there are more than two people involved, because you need quite a lot of staff to make a profit and of course with that comes all the headache of having staff. Commercial cleaning attracts a different kind of employee and as a rule of thumb employees who are more committed to the role.
The reasons for me setting up a cleaning business were three fold; one, I'd always fancied doing domestic cleaning, two, I always wanted to have a go at being self-employed, and three, ever since I found out about NVQ assessing in the cleaning industry I have been quite sure that this is where I wanted to be. Now, I also knew a sound background in cleaning was an important criteria, and through becoming self-employed I've been able to take time-out to do my NVQ's, do the cleaning, and –in an unexpected twist- have been involved heavily in commercial cleaning too. I am now 31 years old and whilst I am far from over the hill, full-time cleaning is taking its toll. This is why I now want to get all the wheels in motion to become an assessor.
Ideally, what I would love to do is get my A1 and do freelance assessing (I've seen those jobs too) around my own cleaning jobs, and be in full-time assessing by my late 30's.
Now Dave, I must comment the line "You can get a job as a trainee assessor with the advantage that you will be paid a salary whist training and you won't, hopefully, have to find your own candidates". Yes, that is true, but getting a trainee position as a Cleaning Assessor is virtually impossible. There are vacancies country wide for qualified assessors, but never trainee. And boy have I been looking. I am lost as to why this should be as I've seen loads of trainee positions for other subjects, but never cleaning. Added to which, I would have to give up the work I do now and I am not entirely ready to do that.

What you also said "The business about candidates, IV's, registration is a bit complicated.
The college (including the one I used) will only support you to complete your A1 portfolio using their IV etc. You are responsible for producing the evidence for your A1 portfolio which you can only get by putting a minimum of two candidates through two units each of an NVQ. Those candidates must be registered with an accredited training provider who needs to be willing to IV the candidates' portfolios, have a qualified assessor countersign your assessment decisions and include you in their standardization meetings. This can be tough. I was lucky to find a local training provider who allowed me to assess two of their candidates for my A1 and did subsequently give me a job" is, more or less, what the college I've visited have said they can offer. The doubt comes in my own confidence (or lack of same) in them.

As I said in my 2nd posting, the college where I did my NVQ's does do A1 training but from another thread on this same forum I read "XXXXXX College - you need to have an assessor role with your own IV" which I took to mean that I'd need to be in a trainee assessor job and thus taking me full circle back to the beginning.
I hope I am not asking too many questions, but I am in much need of correct guidance, as you can see.

Thank you both so much,
Worz.

Thank you too Hunny, you replied whilst i was typing!

You talk of the candidates assessors....won't that be me if i am training and they are my candidates?

Worz

Just a quick reply at the moment.

Have you approached any of the training providers advertising for qualified assessors and asked whether they would be prepared to take on a trainee?

Dave

Hi Dave

Yes, done that too However, the most difficult part is that almost all of the advertised jobs are through agencies and of course you have to get past them first. They -naturally- have a job to do, so i understand why they may not be interested in talking to people who dont meet the criteria for the advertised job. Also, there is no chance they'll tell you who it is who is actually looking for staff, so you can't go direct.

I have my own ideas why trainees in this sector are not sought after, but they are just that; ideas. It is frustrating because as i said before, there is a demand for qualified in cleaning.

Worz

Hi Worz

Regarding occupational competence, customer service isn't really a viable comparison as everyone at work delivers customer service others. All workers have customers in one form or another, even City & Guilds lists grave digging as suitable for the customer service award!

You haven't said which part of the country you are based in but I've found a trainee assessor job in cleaning advertised for the West Midlands.

Are you occupationally competent in any other area? You run your own business, what about business admin? What about customer service? You don't have to assess cleaning to get your A1 qualification but once you have it you can assess in any area that you are occupationally competent in.

Dave

Hi Dave

I am infact in the west midlands, if the trainee position you've seen advertised is with the Morgan Hunt agency then i've applied for that already, but thanks. I am waiting to hear back (or not...) about that one. This was the first ever trainee vacancy i've seen.

WRT customer service, do i have to do my NVQ in CS to be a trainer? I have thought about that, I actually wouldnt mind CS and i could do cleaning as well in time. But again, the trainee positions havent been plentyful. Business Admin isnt really an option as it doesnt interest me - i'm not being negative when i say that, but what i mean is i have not had masses of occupational experience as i have an accountant who deals with the numbers bit for me. The rest i do myself but its very basic.

I did have some good news today, i MAY be able to use a couple of ladies from another cleaning company as candidates. I also spent much time thinking about said situation and it did occur to me that i've not got too much to lose if i take a chance on the new small college, and in any event, they've not accepted me as yet. I'm still thinking.

Thanks as always

Worz.

Hi Worz

You don't HAVE to do your A1 qualification in customer service, you can do it in any occupational area that you have the relevant experience in. You are more likely to find a college which delivers both the A1 award and customer service so that they could let you loose on two of their candidates.
Once qualified you can then assess cleaning NVQ candidates.

Dave

Hi Dave

Sorry, i dont think i made myself clear. Before i do an A1 course (for anything), if i want to go on to do a job assessing NVQ in CS, do i have to do the CS NVQ's first? Like i've done my cleaning NVQ 1&2 and thats as high as it goes for cleaning, so i've done that bit, but would i need to do the same if i wanted to assess CS?

Either way, there is still the difficulty of finding a college in this county to do the A1 course.

Thanks again

Worz